Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519
02/07/2008 01:30 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB313 | |
| HB343 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 313 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 343 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HOUSE BILL NO. 313
"An Act providing for and relating to the issuance of
general obligation bonds for the purpose of paying the
cost of a scientific crime detection laboratory; and
providing for an effective date."
JOHN GLASS, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
SAFETY, described the inadequacies of the current crime lab
and the proposed new crime lab for which they are seeking
funds in the amount of $100 million. The current lab was
built in 1986 to house 14 people. Currently 41 people are
working in the same space, utilizing approximately ten
different sciences. The crime lab did not start processing
DNA until 1994 and is now receiving 1,000 samples of DNA per
month. In 2006 the Legislature appropriated $4.8 million to
research and design a new lab, and to find a location. After
looking at 34 locations, the Department chose Anchorage as
the best location for the lab. Anchorage is in proximity
with the most work being done by the lab and has an
international airport. The site consists of 15.3 acres on
Tudor Road between the current crime lab and the Anchorage
Police Department. The Department is in negotiations with
the municipality of Anchorage for the property.
1:44:25 PM
Mr. Glass strongly emphasized the need for a new crime lab.
The current lab cannot be added onto. The Department hired a
firm to determine what size laboratory was needed currently
and in the future. The new building is designed for forty
years of use. The planned building is 83,000 square feet and
has room to expand as new technologies and analysts are
needed.
1:45:31 PM
Co-Chair Meyer asked about plans for the old building. Mr.
Glass answered that the building cannot be made into another
kind of lab. He hopes to move the Sexual Offenders
Registration, the Alcohol Beverage Control Board and an
investigation unit to the old building.
Vice-Chair Stoltze wanted to know how critical the situation
was in the old lab in relation to preserving evidence.
1:47:25 PM
Representative Hawker asked for real numbers.
MATT TANAKA, ENGINEER, CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATIONS,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC FACILITIES
(TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), reviewed the process of
designing the new lab and establishing the dollar amount
needed. An architectural firm with a nationally recognized
crime lab expert was hired to determine the necessary size.
The budget figure was arrived at from the bottom up based on
need. An executive decision was made near the end of the
study phase to limit the scope of the project to a $100
million upper limit.
Representative Hawker asked what the optimal number would
be.
Mr. Tanaka replied that initially they foresaw a need for up
to 97,000 square feet, but the timeline for this square
footage was too far in the future. They thought they could
use up to $120 million for the project. This was scaled back
to $106 million, which provides for a $100 million face
value plus up to $6 million of interest earnings from the
bonds.
1:50:38 PM
Representative Kelly observed the 400% increase in square
footage over the old lab and asked for justification for the
additional space.
Mr. Glass described the cramped conditions for the 41 people
doing both lab and paperwork on the same workbenches, which
causes serious concerns of cross-contamination of evidence.
In addition, five new DNA analysts were added through the
Legislature in FY 08 and space must be made for them. The
lab is trying to expand into other sciences such as
toxicology, which is currently sent out-of-state.
Representative Kelly thought a 400% increase still seemed
excessive. He was also concerned about additional expenses
for the proposed operations in the old building. He wondered
if sending some work out-of-state wasn't appropriate.
1:53:31 PM
Co-Chair Meyer voiced similar concerns about costs. He
recognized that the need for the crime lab was increasing.
He wondered about using General Fund money instead of the
bond and appropriating funds in phases, such as $40 million
each year for three years. Mr. Glass thought that could be a
possibility. He said the planning and review money will run
out in late July and General Funds could carry the project
through to the planned ground-breaking in February 2009.
Co-Chair Meyer wondered how Alaskans might react to a $100
million project for Anchorage on the ballot and asked about
the Department's marketing strategy. Other municipalities
might want the lab. Mr. Glass concurred that they were
asking for a lot of money and reiterated the need for the
laboratory.
DAN SPENCER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES,
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, commented on Co-Chair Meyer's
thought about appropriating $40 million over three years. He
said the State cannot let a contract for more than the
appropriation.
1:56:30 PM
Representative Hawker noticed that HB 313 authorizes bonds
for design and construction and asked if the $106 million
included equipment and land. Mr. Glass said equipment, land
and moving costs were included. Representative Hawker
wondered if this should be in the language of the bill.
Representative Gara calculated that the cost for the lab
would be $2.5 million per employee for 41 employees and
thought that sounded high. Mr. Glass had had some of the
same concerns; however, the numbers came from crime lab
experts. Representative Gara asked for help understanding
the enormity of the amount.
1:59:11 PM
Mr. Glass reiterated that the experts had said the amount
was needed for the type of laboratory and services needed.
Representative Gara pointed out that Alaska had many needs.
He questioned whether the consultants had both needs and
efficiency in mind.
Mr. Tanaka assured the Committee that Representative Gara's
questions were common. He said he had managed two other
successful lab projects for the State: the environmental
health lab for the Department of Environmental Conservation
in Anchorage, and the virology lab for the Department of
Health and Social Services in Fairbanks. He pointed out that
laboratory space is sized based on the analyses that will be
performed in the space, not on how many people are in the
building. One analyst may need to work in several different
laboratory modules. There may be very few people and many
technologies. If the module is not built, the lab cannot
perform the function.
Mr. Tanaka said the consultants hired for the project are
nationally recognized crime lab experts, McClaren, Wilson
and Lawrie, Inc. This firm has designed and built crime labs
all over the country. The State can draw on the expertise of
the consultants as well as the experience of the two labs
already built in the state.
2:03:34 PM
Representative Gara asked about the process used to
determine the size of the lab.
Mr. Tanaka explained the process. First, the national crime
lab experts met with Public Safety staff, including Orin
Dim, the Crime Lab Supervisor, and the architects to
determine what the needs were for the new lab. The space was
then designed for optimal use, factoring in both current and
future program needs. The design is designed based on real
need and not speculation. Mr. Tanaka said that at this point
floor plans are developed and there is a program and needs
analysis. The budget presented is based on thorough study.
Representative Crawford questioned a proposed bullet-proof
wall to the road. He asked for a breakdown of costs of
machinery and equipment separate from the costs of the
actual building. He agreed with other Committee members that
the amount requested seemed high.
2:06:22 PM
Mr. Glass said that part of the cost-cutting did include the
removal of the bullet proof wall. He said Orin Dim has
conducted a study of the dollar values of the equipment.
Representative Nelson wondered if part of the high expense
was due to storage space needs for DNA and crime scene
material. Mr. Glass emphasized the critical importance of
storage space. He provided the Committee with photographs
documenting crowded evidence storage and work space (On
File). The garage space needed for examination of cars is
also used for evidence storage. Each time the garage is
needed to examine a car, the stored evidence must be moved
out and back in, wasting a great deal of time. He went on to
say that although storage space is important, work space for
the DNA analysts and other scientists is more of an issue.
Representative Meyer asked for a breakdown of costs for the
building, land, equipment and so on. Mr. Glass said they
would get that information to the Committee.
Co-Chair Meyer added he would also like to know the future
operating costs of the building.
2:09:32 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze clarified the sterile, secure and non-
public nature of the building. He wondered if the building
could obtain an exemption from One Percent for Art, which
could save $1 million.
2:12:38 PM
Representative Gara stated for the record his respect and
appreciation for members of the arts community.
Representative Gara asked if the proposed land for the crime
lab is private. Mr. Glass responded that the land is not
private but belongs to the Municipality of Anchorage
Heritage Land Bank. The Department is still in negotiations
for the land and close to a contract agreement for long-term
lease.
Representative Gara wondered what the lease price was and if
it was included in the $106 million figure. Mr. Glass
clarified that in exchange for the use of the land, the lab
would do free work for the municipality.
2:14:36 PM
Representative Gara asked if the $100 million covered more
than construction costs. Mr. Glass replied that the money
was also for site preparation, design and engineering costs,
in addition to construction costs. Representative Gara
wondered if there a per square foot cost. Mr. Glass
described some of the complexities that made finding a
square foot cost difficult.
2:16:11 PM
Mr. Tanaka said a square-foot figure could be calculated by
comparing the project with other similar projects. After
taking out project specifics and escalating the figures to
the present, the cost for the DEC environmental health lab
was $950 per square foot. The Fairbanks virology lab, in
comparison, cost $1,136 per square foot. The proposed crime
lab comes to approximately $1,050 per square foot. He
concluded that the cost is on par with other laboratories of
similar complexity in Alaska.
Mr. Tanaka delineated site preparation costs: $7 million for
site preparation, $3 million for laboratory-specific
features in the building, and $2.3 million for laboratory
equipment.
Representative Gara questioned whether the costs for the
other state buildings were scrutinized.
2:19:19 PM
Co-Chair Chenault wondered how much work the lab would do
for Anchorage in exchange for the land use. Mr. Glass said
approximately 70% of the crime lab's work is currently for
the Anchorage Police Department.
Vice-Chair Stoltze compared the building to a hospital. He
pointed out that hospitals out-source their records and
wondered if every function in the crime lab was essential.
Mr. Glass answered in the affirmative. He explained that
part of the challenge is that a piece of evidence might have
to be put through many processes. Once the piece is brought
on-site, shipping it out can cause cross-contamination.
2:22:33 PM
Representative Nelson acknowledged progress made on specific
cold case files because of the application of forensic
science. She didn't want the State to contract out vital
pieces of evidence. She thought the price well worth the
money for victims' rights.
Vice-Chair Stoltze agreed but wondered if there could be
less expensive buildings for storage.
Co-Chair Meyer asked Mr. Glass for a breakdown of the costs.
He referred to the case of a fish hatchery in which costs
were double what the Legislature approved.
Mr. Glass said he would bring the numbers the following
week.
2:24:59 PM
Representative Kelly wondered if other states sub-contracted
to the private sector.
ORIN DYM, FORENSIC LAB MANAGER, CRIME LAB SUPERVISOR,
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE),
answered that some evidence cannot be farmed out. Some is
sent to the FBI. There are no facilities to perform
controlled substance analyses. Currently, major outsourcing
is non-evidentiary, such as convicted offender DNA samples.
2:27:24 PM
Representative Gara wanted to know the annual financing cost
for the $100 million bond.
DEVEN MITCHELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA MUNICIPAL BOND
BANK AUTHORITY, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, thought the cost
would correlate to the interest on the bonds; Alaska's
current rate would be close to 4%. This would make the
annual payment approximately $7.5 million.
Co-Chair Meyer asked for a fiscal note from Revenue showing
the repayment schedule and the ultimate cost of the bond.
Mr. Deven said he would get the fiscal note to him.
2:29:28 PM
Co-Chair Meyer closed public testimony on HB 313.
Representative Kelly stated his skepticism regarding space
studies. He wondered what would happen if the square footage
of the crime lab was cut it in half.
Co-Chair Meyer reiterated the need for a break-down of
costs.
HB 313 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
2:32:10 PM AT EASE
2:43:42 PM RECONVENE
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